There's a lot of moon and sea imagery in your lyrics and a lot of rocking boat motion in the music itself. What's your obsession with the moon and the sea?
You know, it's funny. I get into these little curiosities with writing. I keep a little book with me all the time and I'm always writing in it. It changes so much, some subject matter or stuff I'll notice that keeps popping up in the writing. At home, I have these huge sticky notes that post-it makes. They came out a couple years ago. I love those. You can stick them up on the wall; they're huge. I have a page of four words I can never ever use again.
There are a lot of sea songs and ocean songs on That Sea, the Gambler. This record has this whole circus idea, circus music I was listening to and images that go in with that. I don't understand that all the way either, you know. It used to bother me more than it does now. I really like this Gillian Welch record that happened a couple of years ago. There was this line she'd use in a couple of different songs. Maybe it was the Abraham Lincoln line. It would be different songs but a really similar line.
It's something that ties the record together and makes it more of a comprehensive unit of songs instead of just a bunch of individual tunes.
Yeah, exactly.
Interesting. I hadn't thought about it like that, but that's cool. Anyhow, more specifically on this record, what about that particular song made you choose it for the title of the record?
I think I had that title tumbling around my head for a long time before we started. It was just where the songs were coming from during the time of writing that record. It was such a long title, and my name is so long as well. Which hasn't been a problem but I feel like it could get annoying for people [laughs]. Someone asked me, "Why don't we just call it Empty Northern?" I don't know...it was important to me that it was that line from the song. It just felt right to me. It was where the songs were coming from, where I was at with making it.
It raises interesting questions about emptiness, because this northern hemisphere isn't exactly "empty."
Right. I guess...I lived on this farm for about seven and a half or eight years. It was a refinished barn and out my window was nothing. You couldn't see anything. There was a little cow pasture and that was it, and a little structure on this hill that no one had lived in in a long time. Every time I looked up the hill it just felt completely vast and empty to me. I walked around and took pictures of this house that was on the hill, thinking I'd use it for the cover. The feeling in the photographs never came through, but I always think of that image for some reason, when I think of that record.
What record has been the most influential and formative for you and your direction as a songwriter?
There's definitely been a few. The Ghost of Tom Joad was a big one for me. That Springsteen album. I think I've listened to that album more than I've listened to anything else. Then there's...Songs of Love and Hate [by Leonard Cohen]. Maybe because I had them on vinyl and I had to listen to the whole thing from start to end. Those records feel so complete to me. They don't feel like they came out when iTunes was around [laughs], when you could just buy songs from it. You'd hear it on a mix or something, but it has such a full feeling for me. I've introduced people to those records, especially that Tom Joad one, and [they'll tell me] every song sounds the same. But I love that about it.
You've had a couple of records out but you're still starting your career in the iTunes era. Do you find it's a challenge to make a record that's really better in its entirety than it is in spurts and individual downloads?
Yeah, especially when you don't have anything to hold onto, you have a download of the album but nothing tangible to hold onto while you listen to the album. It's important to me. I think records are important to people who like that. I hope the way people like to listen to music...I hope for the best. When I'm setting out to make a record, I make it for people who like to listen to records fully. That was something that I used to think about a lot.
I just love buying a new record, or seeing a show with somebody and I can tell in the first couple of songs that it might take a few listens to get into it. I just love that so much.
What's your favorite sandwich?
I like the veggie reuben. There are different ones that they make all over the country and I like all of them. There's a little grocery store in Boulder that makes a really good one.
Do they use tempeh? Or is it field roast or something else?
They use that fake lunch meat stuff, which is the weirdest stuff in the world but I love it [laughs].
Interview conducted May 28, 2009.
